Our owner and founder, Dr. Jordyn Trockman, was recently interviewed by The Coaches Circle Podcast.
Listen to this recording or read the transcript below to learn more about the following:
* Dr. Jordyn’s journey to become a clinical psychologist
* The founding of California Women’s Therapy
* Tips on finding your “niche” in practicing therapy
* Advice on starting your own private practice
* The benefits of virtual therapy for both therapists and clients
* Common challenges faced by psychologists who are new to the field
The Coach’s Circle Podcast is a project by Life Coach Path, an online career resource for anyone looking to enter the growing world of coaching. From information about the history of coaching to a full guide on getting certified, Life Coach Path offers perspective for aspiring coaches looking to kickstart their careers. Click here to read more.
The Coaches Circle Podcast Transcription
Introducer:
You are listening to another episode of The Coaches Circle podcast brought to you by LifeCoachPath.com. Our goal is to explore all the different ways you can craft your own career in the fields of coaching, wellness, and mental health. Each episode features guests who offer an authentic perspective on their own unique career path and explores ways you might begin to craft your own. For more information on who we are and what we do visit www.lifecoachpath.com. And now here’s your host: Brandon Baker.
Brandon Baker:
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Coaches Circle podcast. Today’s special guest is Dr. Jordyn Trockman. She is a licensed clinical psychologist and the founder of California Women’s Therapy in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Jordyn. Welcome to the show.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Hi, Brandon. Thank you so much for having me on.
Brandon Baker:
Absolutely. We were just talking, before we went on the air, about how you are, of course, a licensed clinical psychologist, but you also offer coaching and your practice. I think that’s what makes your perspective perfect for the nature of the show because on this show we often do like to tease apart the difference between these two approaches. Before we get into that, I wanted to first ask you if you can take us through some of your own personal background and some of the factors that you think led you to pursue a career in psychology?
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Great question! Sure. I have been curious about human nature and human behavior for as long as I can remember, so I am definitely one of those kids who thought about becoming a psychologist. I think I saw it on TV growing up, and it was something that I was interested in from the get-go. I was a psychology major in undergrad and then moved into a master’s in counseling and a doctorate in clinical psychology. Psychology is a love for me — a very clear life path — but what I was going to do within the field of psychology has not always been as clear. Within my career, I have definitely bounced around. I’ve worked in hospitals, I worked in residential, I worked in community mental health, I worked in substance abuse treatment centers, I worked in therapeutic schools, and I’ve done assessment and research — really kind of all over the place. Then, before founding California Women’s Therapy, my last two positions were as a supervisor and a manager, so I was really learning more about that business/administrative piece of things. I realized that one of the reasons I had wanted to go into psychology is that I saw it as this very flexible profession where you could have this little private practice, make your own hours, and decorate your own office. I think I saw it as being something with a lot of flexibility and autonomy and realized that I was in jobs where that was not the case. As a supervisor and manager, you’re not in charge — you’re not boss. There’s someone overseeing you, telling you when to work, where to work, who you’re overseeing, what tasks you do, when your door can be opened, when it can be closed, and so forth. I am also a working mom, so when I was in those roles with a little one at home, I realized it wasn’t a great fit. I really wanted to be home more and to have more flexibility, but still use this tremendous education and experience that I have acquired over a decade in the field of psychology. So, I ultimately decided to found California Women’s Therapy, which is a virtual group practice offering both psychotherapy and life coaching.
Brandon Baker:
Yeah, perfect. Thank you for taking us through that. I was kind of smiling when you were talking about your innate love for psychology. I feel like, given that I’m hosting the show, I’m right there with you. I kind of joke around that people-watching for people like us is a sport — it’s not just something you do leisurely. It’s something that’s hard to explain. When you have an interest in human nature, it kind of sticks with you forever. Now you mentioned in your story and also on your website that your daughter was born in 2017, and that prompted you to make that shift from employee to business owner. I wanted to start there because a lot of the listeners on the show are in a similar position. They may already be in the field of psychology in some capacity, in various clinical settings, or maybe even completely unrelated. Some past lives include jobs like yoga instructor or private chefs — it runs the gamut for guests that have been on the show, but then they’re making that jump to private practice. So, what were some of the challenges that you faced making that jump to private practice and for anybody listening that is contemplating making that jump, what advice might you give or what pitfalls do you want to remind them of to try to avoid?
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Yeah, there was a lot of fear and anxiety in going from the W2 job — the full-time employee working for another company— to creating my own thing. I think it was a little bit extra challenging for me as a psychologist as I had never worked in a private practice setting in my training. I was always in organizations and corporations, and I didn’t get to see someone else’s entrepreneurial work, I didn’t get to see someone else create something, and I didn’t have a sense for how private practice really ran. So, there was a decision point where I was like, “Okay, I see the gaps. Here’s the information I don’t have. Here’s the knowledge I don’t have. Here are the skills I don’t have. It’s time to either learn it or delegate it or get someone else to help you with it. This can’t be the reason I don’t take the leap.” So, one of the first things that I did — there’s a community college nearby, and they had a digital marketing course, and I was like, “I’m going to learn to do marketing.” That was one of my big things, like “I can’t open a practice of my own. I don’t know how to market.”
Brandon Baker:
And this is with a baby at home that you decided to take a marketing class.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
There’s a baby at home. I was like, “I’m going to take some marketing classes. I need to figure this out. I need to learn it.” That was kind of my first step towards, “All right, let me fill in the gaps. Let me learn the things that I’m saying. I can’t do this because I don’t know how to X.” Once I realized that marketing wasn’t that hard, I was like, “Oh, well what else is preventing me from moving forward?” I’m like, “I don’t know how to create a website. Well, I’m just going to learn how to create a website!” I was able to find a lot of great webinars and resources online or in Facebook groups. I did not spend a ton of money learning these skill sets, but I did invest quite a bit of time. I learned WordPress, I learned search engine optimization, I learned marketing strategies, a lot about Facebook and Instagram, and all kinds of fun stuff. And I asked for help along the way. I’ve not done it all completely on my own.
Brandon Baker:
Right. I’m just kind of laughing because you’re making it sound so easy, but in the conversations I’ve had with therapists and coaches alike, this is what they say is the hardest part of their entire journey — of their entire career. By and large, they say that not only making the jump from employee to entrepreneur but learning the marketing and learning the business end is the hardest part. I’m glad that you found that to be a welcome challenge — that is the tone that you’re giving off here — but what I want to remind listeners of is, number one, try to have that mentality, the one that you’re displaying so beautifully now, but number two, I think it’s important to remember that you don’t need to spend a ton of money to learn a lot of these skills especially in 2020. The information is all out there. Don’t be taken in by “Okay, if you spend $3000, $4,000 on a weekend seminar or something, you’ll learn everything you need to know about starting a practice.” I’m sure you will learn quite a few things, but if you don’t have the money or if you don’t have the resources or time or whatever it is, don’t feel pressured to go down that route because it’s not absolutely necessary. I think it’s interesting how you mentioned that at every step of the way you saw the roadblock and you’re like, “Oh, let me just learn that.”
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Yeah, and it wasn’t always me learning it. Sometimes it was me finding someone to help me. I’ve had a couple of different virtual assistants and I, at one point, hired a bookkeeping service while I was learning those tasks, while there were things that I was like, “I can’t learn everything at once. Some of these things need support from other people while my learning and growth energy goes somewhere else.” Again, I don’t know everything at this point, but I know most things, and I have a clear sense of when to hire someone. I have a much better understanding of “How hard is this task? Will this take me 30 minutes to learn or three days to learn?” And if it’s going to take three days, maybe I’m going to delegate that. Or maybe it’s going to go on my 2021 bucket list to learn in that area — doing things in baby steps, right? If you chunk away at stuff, it’s a whole lot easier than just spamming yourself with some massive new task which feels very overwhelming.
Brandon Baker:
Yeah, and I think what you’re pointing to there is being resourceful, whether it has to do with learning yourself or learning when to delegate. Again, you’re very humble in the way you’re describing it, but this job of what you’re saying — this challenge is really what stops people in their tracks a lot of times. I’ve done enough of these interviews where I know this jump, this kind of marketing challenge, this business backend challenge, in general, is really what stops a lot of people from making that next step. So, be resourceful. Don’t be afraid to dive into topics that you’ve never dealt with before. That is the challenge of being an entrepreneur — being in unfamiliar territory. Thank you for taking us through that. Okay, so I wanted to switch gears to something that a lot of listeners to the show are quite interested in. That of course is the challenge of finding a niche — finding an identity as a coach or a therapist. I know that in your particular practice, you primarily do see women, so let’s start with that. I know that you do see men and women both, but your primary focus is women. So, what have been some of the leading factors for why you decided to gear your practice in that direction as opposed to keeping it a more traditional 50-50 balance?
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Yeah, absolutely. Part of that decision did come from doing some learning around how to create your own niche and realizing pretty quickly that I do feel more energized and get more passionate about my work with my female clients than I do with male clients, in general. I think there’s a different level of connection, certainly with women who are experiencing challenges that I have personally gone through or situations that are very similar to either mine or my sister’s or my mom’s or my girlfriends’. It just feels a little bit more connected in those ways. Part of that comes out of my experiences and struggles as a new mom working full time with a baby and just trying to navigate all of that within my career. And then obviously the pregnancy, the postpartum I’ve been through, and pregnancy losses, unfortunately. I’m very much in that stage of life where being a woman and understanding the challenges that we face that are unique to women and that sometimes aren’t talked about or shared openly, and seeing how powerful that can be to have providers that are putting it out there. Those are our specialties and that’s where we’re liking to work — helping women with all of the work-life balance and personal challenges that come with being a woman in your childbearing years.
Brandon Baker:
Absolutely. Yeah, and I suspect that a lot of the listeners of the show identify with what you’re saying. That they feel a particular empathy with other — well, it could be women or it could be men, or it could be — well, I guess let’s just keep it to the gender identifications of men and women. I think somebody that’s starting their practice might fear that if they divide their practice in half, that the amount of client interest is going to be split in half as well. I would suggest to listeners to kind of shift your focus away from that kind of thinking and instead realize that by focusing in on the type of clients that you most identify with, you are going to be doing your best work. Not only that, but clients are going to be more attracted to your practice if they know that you specialize in people like them, as opposed to more of a generalist type of practice where I see everybody. I think there is kind of a misunderstanding or maybe a false assumption here that “No, no, no — you can’t divide your practice in half like that because you have to keep your client options open.”
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
There are plenty of clients. I’m in California, so even if I take half of the population of California and see only women in California, there are still millions and millions of clients to choose from, especially with virtual services. I know that’s become very mainstream, but that was my plan from the get-go. You can see anyone in the state that you’re licensed in, so you don’t have to worry about, “Oh, there aren’t enough people with this specific issue in my small town.” You can really niche and find people throughout your entire state or multiple states if you happen to be licensed elsewhere, as well. Especially coaching — coaching anywhere.
Brandon Baker:
Coaching, especially, yeah. It’s funny because, in my conversation with coaches and therapists, there was such a stark divide between when people came onto the virtual train. Coaches have been like, “Yeah, I’ve been doing this virtual stuff since before Skype. This is kind of par for the course for me when COVID hit and everything became virtual,” versus therapists I’ve noticed, by and large, have been kind of scrambling or at least were scrambling back in March and April. “How do we move? How do we shift our services onto a virtual platform?” There are licensure considerations to have there as well. There are training considerations to have there as well. That’s actually a perfect segue because one other very important way, probably the biggest way, that your practice differentiates itself from any of the others that we featured on the show is that you are exclusively virtual. We actually have not had an exclusively virtual practice being represented on the show, and that’s actually the main reason why I was so interested in speaking with you. So, obviously, this came about way before COVID. You were definitely ahead of the ball there. You kind of saw that trend coming. I wanted to ask you, what have been the biggest benefits of having an all virtual practice for anybody out there that might be considering doing the same, both from a client perspective and from a business owner’s perspective? And maybe if you can also share some of the drawbacks just to keep things real. What has been something that you didn’t quite expect or something where you sometimes think “Man if I just had a physical office.”
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
I’m kind of giggling as I’m thinking about all of this. One of the main reasons I wanted to go virtual was for the convenience — the convenience both for myself, for the other providers I might bring on, and for clients. I’m in Los Angeles. Traffic is crazy. I have a small child that you can’t leave unattended and also can’t come into sessions. I know that there are so many other moms and so many other working women who don’t have three hours in the middle of their workday to drive to a therapy session, go to a therapy session, drive back and come back. It’s just not doable when your schedule is packed with work and family obligations. To get even an hour for yourself — or some of my clients do half-hour sessions, so to get a half-hour for yourself in your busy life is sometimes a lot to ask. So taking out that commute factor is huge and just very convenient and has a lot more flexibility in my schedule and the schedules of my contractors and also our clients. Another factor of that was financial. I watched a business fall apart partially due to the fact that they were paying a ton of money on rent on a number of spaces throughout California.
Brandon Baker:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
The overhead is massive! So, I realized that I could be braver in terms of taking this leap into group practice ownership if I didn’t have a massive office expense looming over my head. That’s been huge, right? I work from my home, the majority of my contractors work from their homes, the clients seek the care wherever they want to — the overhead is very low. There are some amazing electronic platforms out there that really enable us to do everything we need to do virtually. Sometimes it takes a little research to find something that’s going to work and a little bit of trial and error and adjustments, but, I mean, with the money that you save it’s really a great option. Downsides, right, because I work from home? Sometimes there’ll be noise above me — someone’s cutting the grass, the garbage trucks are getting picked up, my husband’s doing the dishes. I ended up cutting a little doggy door in my office door so my dog can come in and out of the office, but my husband and my daughter stay out, and what will now happen if I don’t time my sessions right is I’ll get my daughter poking her head through the doggy door saying, “Mommy! Mommy! Are you done? Mommy!”
Brandon Baker:
My gosh, that’s awesome. I have two of my own. This makes total sense. I can see it. Yeah.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
And then of course, as you know, the other downside of virtual is when the connection doesn’t work — when the calls drop, when the video doesn’t load. It happens. It’s not every session with every client, but there is usually a bit of the, “Can you hear me? Oh, I don’t hear you. Let me try a different network. What if you log out? Have you tried a different web browser?” I have become an IT person in addition to a therapist.
Brandon Baker:
Yeah. So, it definitely sounds like most of the drawbacks that you mentioned are pretty predictable, pretty controllable, and just require some degree of pre-planning in order to avoid them. It seems that by and large it’s nothing too insurmountable, and, on the whole, it turns out that having a virtual practice pretty much can achieve most of the same benefits as having an in-person practice. Right? I think you would agree with that assessment.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
I’ve been very happy with this decision, and I do encourage more practices to go that route. I’ve been really pleasantly surprised. I’m able to have practicum students — my students who are in master’s and doctoral programs in psychology as part of their school training — join California Women’s Therapy, which I wouldn’t have thought I could do. I would have assumed that the schools would have required that to be in person — that was always the case for me and my training, but times are changing and the schools are being flexible, especially during everything going on with the pandemic. So, I’m able to have a full training program that I’m running just from my home, which is very, very cool. That’s something I couldn’t have imagined five years ago.
Brandon Baker:
Yeah. Well, I think most therapists would agree with that last part right now. Nobody could have really imagined that everything would have been moving over. I mean, I remember one therapist told me that face-to-face therapy was kind of the last holdout in terms of something that you have to do in person. Everything now could be done online, but a conversation with a coach or a therapist is kind of that last thing, that last point of human connection that people really yearn for. But of course now with the pandemic there kind of isn’t a choice anymore. I think it has become kind of this new normal, and kudos to you for — obviously nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but I do think you deserve a lot of credit for seeing the direction that not just society, but the act of helping others in a professional capacity, whether it’s therapy or coaching, seeing where that was headed. I could only imagine that one silver lining — because we do have to find the silver linings of COVID — one silver lining for your practice is undoubtedly the fact that this is going to become more normalized. You are going to see more virtual practices popping up, and that can only be good for business for you I would imagine.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Yeah. I mean what has been awful for the world has been really good for my business. It feels very weird to say, but it has been. We’ve grown tremendously, we’ve brought on new contractors, I brought in practicum students, I started an internship program — people were really excited to find something that’s virtual. We don’t want to be in person if we don’t have to be right now. Things are scary, and so having that safety and these connections too — I mean, I get to talk to my clients and I get to talk to my contractors and I get to talk to my interns. I have a very social life going on during the pandemic, which I think is rare as well, and I feel really fortunate to have half that.
Brandon Baker:
All right. Perfect. Yeah. So, I wanted to kind of end the show on a question that I like to ask most guests that come on. Aside from some of the more technical considerations that you just mentioned, in terms of your client work, or maybe some of your own personal work as a therapist because of course we have talked about therapists having to do their own work, what would you say has been the greatest challenge throughout your professional career? What might you advise anybody listening to the show who is looking to go into private practice or is looking to open up their own coaching practice — what might you advise for them to maybe handle that perhaps better than you did or how to prepare for that?
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
The greatest challenge throughout my career? So, there are a few that come to mind. The one that seems most relatable to our viewers would be the imposter syndrome, right? Feeling like, “Oh, I’m just,” whatever, fill in the blank. “I’m just a person from wherever, a person with this education or this background. I’m not a real life coach or a real psychologist. I haven’t been licensed that long.” You can say that a million times as a reason to keep you from taking steps forward. From marketing or going private or applying for that job, or sounding competent in an interview. The truth is we’re all just people. We’re all just people with our experiences and skillsets and knowledge. There is no magical “to be a psychologist” or “to be a life coach.” If you’re able to provide guidance and help to someone, and you’re doing it in a legal and ethical way, you’re doing it. So, I think that confidence piece is really huge.
Brandon Baker:
Yeah. Thank you for being honest about that. Actually, whenever I ask this question, it’s pretty much two main things that come up. The marketing side is often a big challenge, but yeah, the other one is what you just mentioned. Imposter syndrome is a huge, huge challenge for coaches and therapists, and I think it’s great to have that come to light on the show because if anybody listening is considering going into practice of their own, hearing these stories of others going through the same kind of silent battle that they’re going through, referring to the imposter syndrome here, I think can be quite comforting to know that, “Hey, I’m not the only one feeling this doubt about my abilities, and there’s no amount of degree or education that can fix this, you know?” I think especially in some regards — so, for example, a therapist dealing with trauma, right? There’s no amount of education that, at least for a starting therapist, can make you feel competent to deal with severe trauma. That is a huge challenge and a very delicate challenge that only experience and self-work as a therapist is going to be able to help you through. On the coaching side, you can think of an executive coach who is sitting down with a 40 year veteran in business. Maybe they’ve started and sold five companies throughout their lives — multi-millionaires. A coach is going to feel intimidated if they have just started their own career. Like “What am I going to tell this person sitting across from me about business that they don’t already know?” Yeah, I mean these feelings are real. They come from a genuine place. It’s not just imagined. I think it is comforting to hear others expressing that same thing, and just remember that all you need to do is be one step ahead of your client on just one area. You don’t have to be smarter than them. You don’t have to be more experienced than them. You just have to kind of be one step ahead in one area of your life, and that alone is enough perspective to make a difference in the client’s personal or professional life. So, thank you again for being honest about that, and thank you for coming onto the show. I think this was a unique perspective. Like I said, we haven’t had a guest on the show that owns a virtual practice, and I think that’s going to be more and more popular. So, thank you for taking us through your experience. I want to give you a chance to tell listeners where we can find out more about you and about your practice online.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Absolutely. Thank you for that opportunity. So, I’ve got three websites to promote.
Brandon Baker:
You’re a virtual practice — of course you do.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
The first is my virtual practice: California Women’s Therapy at CaliforniaWomensTherapy.com. I also, if there are any psychologists out there, I run a group coaching program for a psychologist studying for their licensing exam, just called the EPPP, so that’s www.drjordyn.com, and Jordyn was with a ‘Y’ — J-O-R-D-Y-N for anyone that’s looking for some coaching around the licensing exam. I also am part of a nonprofit called Psychologists of Color, Inc., and our mission is to support psychologists of color throughout graduate school, licensure, and launching their careers. We have some resources and supports available on that website as well.
Brandon Baker:
That is awesome. I love that last one. Well, thank you for sharing. Again, everybody that is Jordyn Trockman. You can find her at California Women’s Therapy. That is her practice website. Jordyn, thank you so much for being on the show, and I wish you the best of luck.
Dr. Jordyn Trockman:
Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today.
Brandon Baker:
Absolutely, We’ll talk soon. Bye.
Introducer:
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Coaches Circle podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening to our show just as much as we enjoyed making it. If you’d like to check out a complete listing of all of the episodes on our show, head on over to lifecoachpath.com/podcast. See you on the next one.
